From:dave schlenoff Electronic:dschlenoff -A- comcast.net
Subject:RE: RE: RE: RE: National 1st Prize Winner Date:Sun Mar 27 11:51:15 2011
Response to:15564
WOW! I sure have mixed feelings about receiving all of that information Mutt! Am glad to know the actuality of the situation and even more disturbed that Travis apparently had so grossly misrepresented this bike to me claiming it to be all "original" as it was. You probably know the story better than anyone, since I called you after I bought the bike and you were kind enough to help me troubleshoot the issues and then you rebuilt the motor.I certainly stand corrected if this is the case as my information was erroneous. Travis had assured me that this bike was original as is, before I bought it from him. That's why I paid so much for it. All I can say is, I told you the AMCA judges have to know their stuff; sounds like they were indeed correct.

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I'd like to put in my 2 here. The "rubberized vinyl" seat that is supposedly a "one year only, 1954 seat" is not correct for a 1954, not is it one year only. According to the 1955 Harley Enthusisit magazine, that is touting the 55 Hummer on the cover, says that it has "the all new rubberized vinyl seat covering. Not the 54 or any earlier seat. the muffler and therefore the clamping for same is incorrect for that year model as it is correct only for 57 and later models. The regulator is also wrong (came out on the 56 models). Just these 3 items would give it a 6 point deduction, because the right seat,the right muffler and the right regulator are all still "available" It has the wrong point cover (came out on the 58 model), WAY over use of cadmium plating ( brake rod, both brake operating levers, gas tank/seat mounting ;ong bolts, one? fork boot clamp,all axle nuts,the grip end plugs are black and should be cadmium, the horn bolts are black and should be cadmium, the horn is missing the model stamping,etc)
It really natters who judges yer bike as to what score you actually get. This bike, from a distance looks fine, but from a "restoration" stand point, it would have been hard-pressed to obtain even a Junior first placing.

Mutt

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Dave Hennessey:
Thanks so much for your condensed version of the AMCA
judging process. I have read the AMCA standards on their
website, but your eloquent condensed version of the rules
(which cover several pages on the website) is very helpful.
It was because I had read the judging standards that I asked
my original question about Dave Schlenoff's 54ST and the
"National 1st Prize Winner" description. I was also
wondering in which category ("original" or "restored") the
bike had been judged.
Thanks also to Dave Schlenoff for providing additional
information in your subsequent postings, as it did answer
some specific questions about your bike. I found it
especially interesting that the bike received an apparently
erroneous point deduction for having an "incorrect" seat
that actually was a "correct" one.
I think these few postings exhibit just exactly what the
Hummer Club is all about. Even though I own three Harley
Lightweights, (only one of which is a True Hummer - a 56B),
I still consider myself a novice. But, by visiting the
Hummer Club website regularly and digesting much of the
valuable information here, as well as reading the Hummer
Exchange almost daily, I think I become a little less of a
"novice" each day.
One day, when time permits, I hope to make it to meets at
Eustis, Oley, Wauseon, or even Davenport.

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colawnguy,

"National 1st Prize Winner" is ambiguous. It doesn't tell us
who awarded the bike 1st Prize, nor what that 1st prize was
for (authenticity, people's choice, best-looking).

If it said "AMCA Senior First", we'd know exactly what that
meant.

The AMCA judges a bike on authenticity - how close it is to
when it came out of the factory. There are basically two
classes - original and restored. Original bikes are given
allowance for wear and tear over the years. Restored bikes
are expected to be nearly perfect.

There are 4 AMCA awards:
Junior Second (85 points)
Junior First (90 points)
Senior First (95 points)
Winner's Circle

Check out the AMCA Handbook of Judging for details.
http://www.antiquemotorcycle.org/uploads/images/amca_images/
Events/Judging%20Info/AMCA%20handbook%202010.pdf

Judging occurs at a number of AMCA National meets (not the
road runs) held across the country each year. A list is
available at
http://www.antiquemotorcycle.org/index.php?page=nat-l-meets-
road-runs

When you get your bike judged, you receive a copy of the
judging sheet showing exactly what the judges found wrong
with it.

Judges are fallible humans, and no judge knows everything
about all makes, models and years of motorcycles. Judges
don't have reference books or laptop computers on the
judging field. And we can't call Mutt on the phone to ask
questions!

Judges are volunteers. At some meets, there are lots of
Harley experts, but few Indian experts. And vice versa.
Judging teams - usually 3 or 4 people - look at each bike
using a very structured approach.

The first time you get your bike judged, you can only get a
Junior award. You have to have it judged a second time
before you can earn a Senior.

When you get your judging sheet at the end of the meet,
don't immediately start fixing everything. Do your homework
and prove to yourself that the judges are right. Judges are
fallible humans! When the judge is examining your bike,
it's really hard for him to remember whether the Hummer
muffler clamp changed from circle to u-bolt in 1957 or 1959!

I've seen AMCA judging from both sides - I've had bikes
judged, and I have been a judge. Nothing in this world is
perfect, but the AMCA judging is pretty darn good.

See you at Oley?

Dave


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I read with interest the posting (#15541)about the 54ST
Golden
Anniversary Model bike that "might" be for sale at Oley, PA.
I am obviously a novice Hummer enthusiast, and am just now
learning about AMCA judging, etc. When Travis Scott sold
this
bike some time ago, he apparently represented it as a
"National 1st Prize Winner." I am wondering exactly what
that
means. Is there a National AMCA meet where the bike could
be
awarded this honor? Maybe Travis or some other Hummer Club
member could explain this.