From:Dave Hennessey Electronic:dave -A-
Subject:RE: RE: RE: RE: National 1st Prize Winner Date:Sun Mar 27 13:23:11 2011
Response to:15564

I think you're being way too hard on the points deductions, and even so, a Junior First requires 85 points and this bike definitely makes that grade. How do I know?

I was one of the judges! (Dave S. just emailed me to let me know). We definitely knocked him on the seat, and I can't remember what else. It would be interesting to see a copy of the judging sheet to see what we caught and what we didn't. (Note: that's why a Senior First takes at least two judgings).

The AMCA judging sheet put things into categories. Each category has a maximum deduction of 4 points. For instance, one category is "Seat / Seat Springs". Seat is only half that category, so max deduction for missing or "completely wrong" seat should only be 2 points. Correct pan, bracket, but wrong cover material is less than that.

"Exhaust system" is a whole category. Let's subdivide that into exhaust pipe/clamp and muffler/clamp. Missing or completely wrong muffler would be 2 pts. Model 165 muffler, but wrong year (wrap around hanger rather than welded hanger), would be less than that.

Regulator does not appear on the judging sheet, but I think it would go in "Generator / Horn / Drive Apparatus", where Model 165 regulator, but wrong year, would certainly be less than two points.

So, I respectfully disagree - I don't think these three items add up to six points, and I don't think all the bike's faults together add up to anywhere near 15 points.

Back to the Senior / Junior business. It is not unusual for a bike to get a high score on its first judging, then a much lower score on its second judging. Very disappointing for the owner, but it reflects the fact that the first judging team was not too smart, but the second team was smarter.

I admit that I'm in the "not too smart" category, but whenever I've been a judge, I've usually been the only one on the team that knows anything about Hummers. And wished that there was someone else there who also knew them.

If you bring a Harley VL or Panhead to Oley, and Dan Henley and Walt Curro go over it together, you're going to get excellent judging - they're both subject matter experts, one sees what the other one doesn't, and they can bounce questions off each other.

Back to the 1954 seat question. The AMCA has an appeals process where you can question a decision of the judges. It is preferred that you do this at the next judging, but I think you can still (this may have changed) submit a written appeal to the AMCA Chief Judge.

Like any other appellate process, you have to show that the judge was plainly wrong - by submitting factory (or other) documentation that supports your allegation.

Dave S. - what you got? (P.S. a vinyl seat that is not cracked is pretty hard to find these days)

Mutt - I'm looking at the March 1955 Enthusiast, I see "black, long wearing Vinyl plastic" on page 23, but I don't see ""the all new rubberized vinyl seat covering". Do I need reading glasses?