From:Robbie e-mail:tls-A-newmex.com
Subject:RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: batteries again Date:Tue Feb 5 22:57:24 2013
Response to:18223
Geoff is here.
Geoffrey Erdos

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Robbie, that seems to git perfect. Does Geoff sell the green type? I would like to get one for my 1951 ServiCAr
Thanks
Mutt

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The diamond emblem was a new look for the '66 model year and appeared on many levels. Tank emblems for Sportster, Bobcat, and Big Twins. And in all the advertising for the new BT engine design. It wasn't used on batteries previous to '66. All the earlier were green shield or red shield. this was researched extensively by Geoff Erdos for production of repop battery cases for Big Twins.
Robbie


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Duane,

The 1955 Spare Parts Catalog lists the 66001-47 battery, with an illustration of the bar and shield logo used since the beginning of time.

The 1957 lists 66001-47 as "Replaced by 66001-47D" and the 66001-47D with an illustration of the bar and shield logo. The 1960 and 1963 also list 66001-47D with an illustration of the bar and shield.

The 1966 lists 66001-47D with the new "bar and triangles" logo.

Harley often used old illustrations in their catalogs, so all this tells us is that the "bar and triangles" logo was available in 1966.

Look at the covers of the Spare Parts Catalogs. The 1964-1965 Supplement (July 1964) was the first one to have the new bar and triangles logo. The 1966 also has it.

Over on the Service Manuals page, we have a small problem. Both the 1965 and 1966 show page 2 - not the covers. However, my original 1966 Service manual has the bar and triangles on the cover.

So it looks like Harley started using the bar and triangles logo in late 1964 - around the start of the 1965 model year - without changing the part number. I believe the bar and triangles logo came out on oil cans and other things around the same time. I'll bet that someone with a collection of big twin literature will come up with the same results.

My opinion would be that the bar and triangle design would be correct for 1965 and 1966 models.

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So what happened in 1957 (or maybe 1956?) that the battery went from -47 to -47D? And what happened to -B and -C ???

My guess is it is related to the 1952-1953 K, 1954-1956 KH, and 1957 Sportster. This is PURE SPECULATION, but bear with me. Perhaps a slightly stronger (thicker plates = more amp-hours ?) battery (the -47B) was used on the 52-53 K. The 1954-1956 KH used an even stronger -47C. During this time, Harley continued to use the old -47 batteries on the Model 125/165.

For the 1957 Sportster, they used a super-powered battery (the -47D), and decided to reduce inventory by using the same battery on both the Sportster and Model 165.

As far as I know, all the H-3 batteries are the same size and shape on the outside, so the differences must be inside.

Well, this neat theory would explain the missing suffix numbers, and it does fit nicely with the model changes to the only other Harley using the H-3 size battery.

Now we need some facts to prove the theory. We need someone knowledgeable about the K/KH/early Sportsters.
Anybody out there?

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I searched the Patent and Trademark Office's database to see when Harley registered the bar and triangles logo. I couldn't find it. Doesn't mean it's not there, just means I couldn't find it. But it looks like Harley didn't register many trademarks during that period (check out the page on Fork Panels). When AMF took over, they registered a lot of the #1 logos.

Mutt - I don't always agree with you, but this time we're both on the same page.

Dave




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the book you are quoting was printed in 1966. We should only be concerned with what was correct on 1959 and earlier models.

Your book should show that the -62 horn was also used on the 48-59 S & ST models, but that version of the horn wasn't even produced until 1962, so it can't be correct for any model, as no model that was produced that year or there ater, used this type of horn.

I went thru my whole pile of parts books for ya. All 8 of these parts books (1948,-49,-50,-51,-52,-53,-54 and 55) all list the battery as a -47. The 1948-1957 parts book is the first to list the battery as -47D.

I have never found a parts book that covers xxxx until 1956, so I can't honestly state that it would also have listed the battery -47D, tho I suspect that it did, as that was the year the regulator changed from the 1118307 to the 1118794. No factory documents that I have ever show any S or ST model having the Diamond type logo battery installed on it. I believe it came out in 1960 or 61.

Just my 2 worth

Mutt

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BRENT
DAVE

How to restore section on batteries showing:
Harley Shield Logo type:
Shield green, early years 48--??
Shield red, later years through ??- 59.

However, the different Harley BAR type logo (not painted) is clearly shown in the 56-66 parts book as 66001-47D used with 53-59 ST.

Obviously, that battery shell/logo was available at that time or it would not be in the illustration.

I think this is an important issue for judging as it would be hard to refute the picture/PN as being incorrect or the part not available at that time.

Since all types of shells are correctly made and on the shelf now, I need to know what direction to point the restoration customers.

OF interest (to me at least), in my 5 yr search for good battery cases to copy, I have found two different versions of the Harley shield Logo. The difference is minor and was probably due to mould change or different battery companies producing for Harley. Not a judging issue.

DUANE TAYLOR, ancient.